As different as fire and water

Posted: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:16 PM

By Martin Savidge, NBC News Correspondent

SAN DIEGO – There is a lot of buzz about the comparison between the natural disasters in the New Orleans area after Katrina and currently in Southern California – and which handled the emergency best and why.

Most of it doesn’t mean much at this stage. The disaster is still unfolding here and the most controversial and testing part is still to come – the recovery.

But California has plenty to be proud of and grateful for. Much of the gratitude is owed to common folks who saw a need and stepped in – not so much government leaders.

The same was true in New Orleans. For example, the Cajun Navy just sort of instinctively materialized in the hours after the storm struck. Air boats and john boats hauled by pickups manned by people who knew they were needed and came. They saved thousands of lives and most got no credit.

Their amazing achievement was lost in the hell that New Orleans became when state and federal officials couldn’t seem to do what a person with a 12-foot boat and an outboard could. Simply put – help.

Firefighters in California pulled off similar miracles soon to be forgotten. So did average volunteers who worked in the pre-dawn darkness caring for strangers at Qualcomm Stadium before heading into their day job.

California was more organized. It is, after all, much more practiced with disasters. Earthquakes and previous fires have honed the edge of preparedness here. It is also a much wealthier state and rich with voters who can make or break a candidacy. And it was quickly determined that it would be no Katrina when it came to a federal response.

No comparison
You cannot compare these disasters. They are as different as water and fire. The loss of 1,300 homes in Southern California so far is awful, but pales to homes and business lost to Katrina. In St. Bernard Parish alone they lost almost five times as many. We aren’t even touching New Orleans or the often overlooked Mississippi coast.

Much of Louisiana's infrastructure was compromised or destroyed. In California much of it was left intact. They could talk on phones to coordinate relief in California. They could barely find a radio to call for help after Katrina.

Qualcomm Stadium where thousands sheltered was never threatened. The Superdome was heavily damaged. It had twice to three times as many people and no electricity, no ventilation, not much food, limited security, no water, no sanitation and absolutely no information.

Then there was the loss of life.

Don't compare these disasters; that would be grossly unfair to the people of California and Louisiana.

The biggest concern is that many will – and then say, "See we have learned from Katrina and fixed what failed." If leaders believe that, then that really will be a disaster.

Check map for fire locations.

Martin Savidge has reported extensively for NBC News from New Orleans - both during Katrina and on the city's ongoing recovery. Click here to watch some of NBC News reports from New Orleans.

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Comments

To even compare these two disaters would be a crime. Those people who have lost all ife in NO are still striving to get it all back and have been permanately displaced. As for thos ein California, in an area where as reported celebrities resided, these people have money and can pick thier lives back up.

The poorest communities in NO, effecting all white and black tenants, devestated this state. these people had no home insurance, no saved money and no where to go.

So if the U. S is that dumb and th government that duumb to compare the two, then the author of this article is right, then it is a real disater.

Alex (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:43 PM)

I think another difference between the two disasters is that the people of California evacuated, while in the hurricane areas the busses stood empty because people refused to leave their homes. They had issued hurricane watches and warnings a week in advance, and some of the CA fire evacuees only had hours or minutes to get out.

AW, Missouri (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:43 PM)

You are absolutely correct! In Southern California, people are not passing dead bodies and wading through fecal matter up to their chest. They aren't drowning in their houses. Yes, the fire was very bad and a tragedy for some. But the evacuees at QualComm are doing yoga and having accupuncture. They aren't watching their relatives die beside them. And, for the most part, those most affected by the fire have the resources to rebuild their homes and businesses. Southern California won't have to relocate half of its population to other states and FEMA trailers. Katrina was and is a massive failure of our government at all levels. In a year, the affected parts of CA will be well on their way to being completely rebuilt.

Kathleen McKeen, Oceanside CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:43 PM)

Well put Martin. About the only thing these two have in common is the use of football stadiums as an evacuation point.

Scott Stanfield, Richmond, CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:43 PM)

I'm sick of hearing about "wealthy, white people" in Southern California. There are PLENTY of homeless people, poor people, and minorities in Southern California. People shouldn't make assumptions based out of ignorance.

Helena Thompson, San Diego, CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:45 PM)

It's not fair to compare these two disasters for another basic reason: a hurricane and fire devastation are not in the same league. Want to compare? How about Andrew v. Katrina? Florida coped and Louisiana didn't. FL local and state officials acted responsibly, and LA's were nowhere to be found until it was time to assign blame and find ways to deflect it. The area hit by Andrew was not as poverty-stricken as Katrina's, but it was no pot of wealth either. While it is true that several agencies dropped the ball during Katrina, it is also important to remember that the citizens of New Orleans were abandoned by their local emergency groups in the first place. (Anyone remember that the Mayor was among the first to leave and abandon his post?) What is unfathomable and inexcusable is that that same local leadership was re-elected.

MDB, New York, NY (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:47 PM)

thank you.

My immediate family are some of those from the "often overlooked Mississippi coast."

This needed to be said.

t_cole Dallas, Texas (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:53 PM)

In New Orleans it was known that a category 4 or 5 hurricane would breach the levees. It was known that such a hurricane would eventually hit directly on New Orleans. The failings are the lack of prevention of the disaster and the lack of planning for mitigation if it occured.

I don't know what the situation was in California, maybe someone can provide this information. There had been several devastating wild fires in the past. It was known that more would occur in the future. What plans were enacted to prevent a recurrence and what plans were made for mitigation if another occurred?

Many people in Louisiana did not have flood insurance. It is now mandated in many of the areas. I heard several comments on the news about people in the wildfire areas not having home insurance. Should it be mandated?

nuanced (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:55 PM)

Mr. Savidge, I would agree with both your analysis and your conclusion. Let's not believe that we have learned and fixed what failed.

We need to hear from people that survived both.

Joe Bellavia, Poway, CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:56 PM)

Mr. Savidge hit the nail on the head with this article. Not to say we should care less BUT Cali fires pale in comparison to the affects of Katrina (and the shortcomings of the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers--LEVEES). Most importantly consider the number of people evacuated in each situation. This number alone tells the story.

Tina Hymel, Norco-Louisiana (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:59 PM)

NO YOU CANNOT COMPARE IT TO KATRINA. BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO REALIZE THAT IN LOUISIANA, PEOPLE DID NOT LEAVE WHEN TOLD TO. AND IF PEOPLE HAD USED THEIR HEADS THEY HAD DAYS TO PREPARE TO LEAVE. AND THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT DID NOT DO MUCH TO HELP EITHER. THEY HAD PLENTY OF RESOURSES TO MOVE PEOPLE OUT THAT COULD NOT GET OUT ON THEIR OWN. PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA ARE BETTER PREPARED. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SIT AROUND AND EXPECT OTHERS TO DO FOR THEM. THEY HELP THEMSELVES. AND THAT MAKES THINGS GO A LOT SMOOTHER.

LIZZ (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:59 PM)

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the behavior of the evacuees in California as compared to those in Louisianna? They have a large role in how things go. I don't see people infront of news cameras crying about how no one came to help them. I haven't heard anything about crimes being committed in the staduim or poor conditions.

LR, Chicago (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:00 PM)

I agree. While each is a disaster, they circumstances are entirely different. One key difference that you did not touch on was the issue of insurance. A critical problem that is stalling rebuilding efforts after Katrina is non-payment of insurance claims based on the contention that the damage was due to flooding (not covered) rather than wind (covered). In the case of Southern California, the damage is clearly due to fire which will be covered by the homeowner's policies. Unless there is a move by insurers to simply not issue insurance for rebuilt homes due to the risk of future fires, - something I seriously doubt will occur - homeowners should receive their money for rebuilding relatively quickly. As a result, I would predict that most of the homes will be rebuilt in the next few years. However, the Katrina area will continue to languish for lack of insurance money as well as other issues due to the much greater magnitude of the damage to the basic infrastructure of communities in Gulf Area.

Doug, Essexville, MI (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:02 PM)

no, you cannot compare the disasters but you can make a comparision between the reaction to them. will there be looting in CA? probably not as much as in LA because fire consumes all, not everything below a certain point. you can't walk through a fire with a tv on your shoulder as was done in the floodwaters after katrina. i think the reaction so far speaks volumes to the (let's face it) cultural differences between the two places. this disaster wasn't handled better because it was a smaller scale, it was just handled better by those affected. there is a lot to be said for those people who proactively help themselves, vs. those who boo-hoo their losses and look for someone to blame.

bravo, SO CAL.

Mo' (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:06 PM)

Dead "ON" - There is no comparison. As far as I know getting anything to the evacuees was never an issue. Try that with a flooded city.

ac, CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:06 PM)

But the flip side of the coin is that there will be critics out there saying that the "affluence" of California dictated a better response out of the Feds, when in reality (as you correctly laid it out) it should be an easier task to recovery in California than it was to Louisiana. Watch for the outcry from the Katrina victims in the coming days, weeks and months. And remind them that they are comparing a bushel of Louisiana apples to one California orange.

Mark D., Tracy, CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:08 PM)

Thank you so much for this article. I thought I was the only one that realized the difference between these events. Other than the evacuees being housed in Stadium's there it nothing similar in these events. As tragic as both are, there are people who have access to Qualcomm each day.. volunteers can come and go, people can stop by and donate things. In New Orleans, those people were virtually inaccessible. They couldn't leave, people couldn't get to them. I am so happy to see San Diego rally around their people. Had the circumstances in New Orleans been different, you would probably have seen something similar happen there...

Staci, San Diego (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:19 PM)

The major difference between the two situations is how a community can come together and be supportive in a bad time. Katrina victims attacked one another while California vicitms support eachother. I believe San Diego just set a great example on how a society should come together in a time of need and others should follow in our footsteps. Katrina showed the world what not to do!

Melanie, San Diego, CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:20 PM)

Well said.
In New Orleans there was no where to go to and no where to return to, some still have no where to return to.

I do not detract from the evacuees of the California fires, I believe they have shown grace under pressure and should be held up as an example as to the nation or the proper way to behave in a disaster.

911, Katrina, and the fires each have a different personality and have to be handled as such. The evacuees, officials, law enforcement, firefighters, and the Governor all have done an outstanding job, my best wishes go out to them all.

Jim Clark, New Orleans, LA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:29 PM)

Your observations are right on. California appears to be so prepared from lessons learned, they really don't need that much if any outside help.

Maynard Krenshaw, Salt Lake City, UT (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:33 PM)

Don't forget that virtually all of the persons stranded in New Orleans had to rely on public transportation which basically shut down 2 days before the storm hit; also had the levees not failed flooding in New Orleans would have been less severe and short-lived. The fires, as large as they are are surrounded by heavily populated areas that with infrastructure able to supply aid immediately. Outside aid to New Orleans had to come from a greater distance by boat(mostly citizen volunteers) or by air(Fed Gov and National Guard, etc.)

jon, Santa Rosa, CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:34 PM)

I'm just wondering what the comparison is for how much looting was going on during Katrina vs. how much we have seen here in California. Seems to me that there was a huge difference in that respect.

Lina, San Diego, California (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:35 PM)

Well said. Thank you for this thoughful piece. It would be a real shame for any politicians to treat this disaster as an opportunity to save face after the Katrina debacle. It wouldn't be a surprise, just a real shame.

Russell B (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:36 PM)

You absolutely should compare Katrina to California fires and look at how well prepared the state is !!!
Have you seen anyone standing in front of their BURNING home asking for the "government" to help them.
California is a true example of the fact that states
are somewhat responsible for themselves. The president is not "responsible" for EVERYONE !!!!
People, take responsibility for YOURSELVES!!!!!eg:the
state of California.

Mary Louis (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:38 PM)

I lived in California for some 34 yrs and have been through many fires and earthquakes. The Biggest was the Northridge one for my family and I. But nothing like what we ever had can compare to the Disaster of Katrina. Those poor people were hit alot harder then us, I feel.

B. Kovach, Simi Vly, Ca. (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:40 PM)

Mr. Savidge: This is extremely well-written and helps put this in context-- while still being respectful to people impacted by both tragedies. Well done. - Chicago, IL

Chicago, IL (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:40 PM)

Amen! Qualcom stadium isn't surrounded by water, either. Any and all persons needing help and those willing to help can drive up at a moment's notice.

katie, Nashville, TN (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:43 PM)

the people in California took care of them selves along with help reveived and the Stadium didn't look like the Dome did, nobody is going to have to sanitize the stadium.
it amounts to a different frame of mind of the two kinds of poeple, I know because I lived there 69 yrs.
of my 70 yrs. and nobody ever had to take care of us
or support us.

Lou Torres Canton,Ga (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:44 PM)

Californians helped Californians, it's that simple and the Federal Gov had NOTHING to do with it.

Although this was larger due to global warming effects, California has dealt with this type of emergency for generations and to compare this to the century type of disaster in New Orleans is ridiculous.

Californians had experience and places to go. The people of New Orleans had nothing and were trapped there. It was a true disaster that required federal help when there was none.

It's a lot easier to run from a fire than wade through floods of dead bodies and trash only to find you can't reach safety, clean drinkable water, food or services.

Stop these ridiculous comparisons...

Steve, San Diego (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:45 PM)

I cannot believe that no one has commented on this. Yes, there is no comparison to the two, except, what happens for the rich does NOT happen for the poor. It has nothing to do with black or white. It is money.

Lola, Tulsa, OK (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:45 PM)

Communication vs no communication...Boundless aid vs worthless aid.

HenryJ, PNW (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:47 PM)

Well said. You definitely cannot compare the two disasters. It has nothing to do with color of skin or affluence of the commuinities. The people of NOLA and the rest of the affected Gulf had no water, no power, dead bodies everywhere, and cities under water. There was no transportation, no food, very little clean water, and absolutely no idea if anyone was ever going to come and help them.

As far as rebuilding... Fire is covered by home-owners insurance ; floods are not. It's much easier to rebuild when your insurance companies are willing to help pay for it.

Carrie, Winchester, VA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:48 PM)

http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSN2336751020071024

Not too bad.

People in the Superdome didn't even have water and officials knew the storm was coming as opposed to fire being kind of a surprise.

I'm just saying.

Kevin (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:50 PM)

AMEN, Martin! Finally a newsworthy article stating the simple facts that parallels cannot be drawn between these two disasters. I hope the politicians take heed of your final comment: "See we have learned from Katrina and fixed what failed." If leaders believe that, then that really will be a disaster.

Doug, Carson, CA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:50 PM)

Aw Missouri. You're making the assumption that most of the residents of New Orleans had the resources to evacuate. Some did refuse, but most had no choice but to stay. Unlike the residents in the affected areas of California, the majority of those people either had no vehicle, were disabled, or were elderly. Even those who had a car did not have money to put themselves up in some hotel for several nights. You're missing the point.

TK, Portland, OR (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:57 PM)

Very good article. I agree with you completely. You cant compare the two disasters. The magnitude alone is different and the people that helped in Louisiana (thousands of us across the Gulf Coast) were forgotten. But we were not looking for individual glory, (unlike our Government, sometimes) just to help hurt people that easily could have been us.

J Patterson, Mobile, AL (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:58 PM)

Katrina and this fire should not even be used in that same sentence. Many people lost their lives in Katrina, there have been a few deaths because of the fire, but these two disasters should never be compared to each other. These houses in California will be replaced. People from Katrina are still living in trailers and the insurance companies are not paying people. California will be rebuilt and just as beautiful. Louisiana, still has not resolved the levee problem and if there is another hurricaine (natural disaster) it will happen again. Let's see if the president gets help to the people within 3 days (hell let's see if he even vists).

What the (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:58 PM)

One must prepare and have plans for the disaster they face. New Orleans - hurricanes; California-earthquakes and fires. New Orleans officials didnt have a clue, didnt have a plan, and didnt appear to care for anything except to point fingers and toss blame. California apparently had a plan and carried it out to a 'T'. Local elected officials knew what to do and how to do it, people were taken care of and the results speak for themselves. Think back to 300 school buses sitting neatly lined up in New Orleans while people needed a way out because according to local elected officials, "they couldnt find qualified bus drivers". Give me a break. The folks in New ORleqans had days of warning and knew the potential disaster looming and had no plan. The people of california fires had little warning but still managed to pull it off. Good preparation for what you face is the key and California is to be praised.

BW - S.A Texas (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:58 PM)

What is sad about the Louisiana/California situation is that people honestly believe that Government cares period.

atlanta, georgia (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:00 PM)

As a guy born and raise in the South, but now living in the Bay Area, also having lived in Orange County. I can say that in the South, there is a much larger sense of "the government owes me" this and that. one of the reasons i left the South for California is that people are better citizens here and for the most part take responsibility for their actions. I can't speak for Los Angeles though. it's still pretty crazy and crime there on par with New Orleans. would they rush to save a burning Malibu home or a Long Beach multi-family residence first?
overall, i think the Bay Area is better prepared than So Cal for a disaster. as proven with the 1906? earthquake in san francisco. look at the city now, you would never think there was a disaster that wiped out the whole city 100 years ago. overall congrats California! you beat Louisiana in ethics and preparedness!

Chris, San Jose, California (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:01 PM)

I love you people that don't live here commenting on how this is no comparison to Katrina. Have you been here, or here now? do you see what is going on? There are still fires going on right now. (Thursday afternoon). 500,000 evacuated just fine. Why? For one people have a brain when they say leave your house or your going to catch on fire. Unlike katrina where they had ample warning to evacuate. We had little or no time to evacuate. Yet again unlike New Orleans, people here are PREPARED for disasters.. It's called taking care of yourself. Not waiting for the president or the govenor to knock on your door and ask you if everything is ok? "do you need anything"?
All you moron reporters and so called analysts get the hell out of here, mind your own business, beat it!!!!

G Fletch (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:01 PM)

What the (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:01 PM)

Why don't we actually have the nerve to state that perhaps some of the ways people in Hurricane Katrina handled themselves and their surroundinds contributed to their perceived 'lack of support' or the 'failure' of the nation to properly help them. Yes, the Dome was threatened and had much less in the way of volunteers and supplies. Perhaps less of a need for security comes directly from the way people conduct themselves and how much of a threat they portray to their fellow evacuees. Looting, anarchy, and selfishness played a huge part in the Katrina disaster, and we were all helpless but to sit and watch. It was a disaster of unprecendented proportion, that cannot be disputed. But to continue finger-pointing and name-calling and downright imagining government involvement in an attempt to do away with a certain minority group of people is as ridiculous as survivors from either disaster competing to see who was more devastated. Get on with recovery and repair and stop trying to out-pathetic each other. We're all out here sending help! We're a nation of blamers, lawsuit filers, and dependents. Bad things happen and we recover. It's not always a competition or a reason to find blame. It's also not all a racial situation or another reason for reverse bigotry.

M.G. (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:01 PM)

I found the statement that California is a wealthier state that can make or break a candidacy offensive! Why must everything be looked at politically? How about saying this is a terrible natural disaster and the difference between Katrina and the fires is that the people of California took responsibility for their own lives and well being, while the people of New Orleans waited for the institution that has provided for them their whole lives: THE GOVERNMENT!

Eileen, PA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:02 PM)

Americans take great satisfaction in clinging to their illusions about New Orleans as shifty and backward. The reality is that the events of 2005 were monumental, a natural diaster that became biblical in the wake of federal incompetence. The catastrophe in New Orleans cannot be compared in any manner or form to the tragic wildfires in California. Californians will recover quickly from their loss, primarily because they will have the resources that many New Orleanians lack to rebuild their homes and lives.

Gary Dohanich, New Orleans, LA (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:02 PM)

I'm just beside myself with petty for someone who said that the residence in NO had time to get out but didn't. While some CHOSE to ride out the storm, there were a lot more people who wanted to leave but couldn't for various reasons. They didn't stay in NO because they wanted to, they had no way to get out. All transportation stopped and you had the elderly who were unable to leave or whole families with no way to get out. So stop with that "they chose to stay" bs because it's not all true.

I'm highly upset that they called the people of NO refugees but in California they are evacuees; what is the difference between the two? Because it's California not some poor ninth ward in NO?

We all know that California has this "status" title associated with the state and that automatically guarantees they will be treated differently. I only hope this is not true.

While you can't compare the two because California has more fires than NO has hurricanes. . .but when you denigrate a city of people because of their location, you look just as ignorant as you sound.

Diane - Washington, DC (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:02 PM)

Thank you for your article. I feel a great loss for the people in CA; I hope that you can rebuild your communities quickly. However, I feel insulted that some are comparing Katrina to the wildfires. I am a Mississippi girl and we are often forgotten about in the news when someone speaks of Katrina. I'm sure it's because of the "bigger, better" story that unfolded in New Orleans. While I feel for anyone that was in the big easy during Katrina. You weren't the only ones and you didn't see video of us screaming at the government or looting. Kudo's to you Californians for acting like civilized people.

Leslie Craft, Laurel, MS (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:02 PM)

I live in San Diego. There is no way that you can compare what's happening half a mile from my house to what happened in NOLA. The people of New Orleans did everything they could with what they have. They should be given kudos. We were lucky in California. Due to the nature of how the fires hit, we were able to move people out and get resources in. New Orleans did not have that chance.

Kudos to our firefighters worked to save everyone's homes and the police and emergency crews who maintained order and insured everyone's safety. We are eternally grateful for the level of service that ALL of us have gotten.

reece notley (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:02 PM)

I have not seen or heard reports of people in Cali raping and stealing from their neighbors. I honestly feel that a lot of the problems post-katrina were a direct result of the community that was affected.

J (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:04 PM)

U know Im reading these responses and it amazes me how we look at thing from a cultural and economic point of view. It still brings out ignorance. I lived in san diego and the aras that got hit by the fire has a lot afluent people and its fire not flooding. Yes race and economics have a lot to do with it. We know that New orleans has way more poor people and lower income folks when we know that San Diego is far from a very poor area knowing that the cost of living there dwarfs New orleans. Im am happy that people did help each but they tried to New Orleans also. There is no comparison but in analyzing down look down on folks.

Eman (Sent Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:05 PM)

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