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Torch tensions split San Francisco

Posted: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:40 PM

SAN FRANCISCO – There's an uncharacteristic tension today in this usually laid back city.

Before dawn, demonstrators started gathering at the end point of the city’s Olympic torch relay; so did a large number of supporters of Beijing’s Olympic Games.

For all the protesters, there are many here who are just as upset that politics is being mixed with sports and that the demonstrations are spoiling what they hoped would be a celebration of their Chinese ethnic roots and the Olympic spirit.

At first glance, the scene appears festive. There are lots of American and Chinese flags, Olympic banners, and families with young children vying for a prime spot to watch the historic event.  

But once you talk to people you hear the intensity of emotion on both sides and even concern among spectators who wonder if there will be trouble along the way. 

One woman told me she thought twice before bringing her two young kids here, but admitted that she doesn't fully understand the international politics driving the protests. And a businessman told me he was offended that protesters wanted to "spoil our moment in the sun."   

VIDEO: San Francisco braces for Olympic torch relay

Torch following a tension filled path                                                        
As a personal aside, I was lucky enough to be a torch bearer for the Atlanta Games in 1996 and the difference in atmosphere between then and now is striking. Tensions are so high here that a 14-year-old dropped out of today's run because of security concerns.

By comparison, my turn as an Olympic torch bearer was all about cheering crowds and excitement along the route. The biggest worry among torch bearers was whether our arms would tire from holding the torch aloft.

Image: A Pro-Tibet demonstrator waves a Tibetan flag on the route of the Olympic torch parade
SLIDESHOW: Torch tensions
For an event that's been intensively planned for the past nine months, there's also a tremendous amount of uncertainty. The torch is scheduled to travel along the San Francisco Bay, but the route could be adjusted mid-run.

And depending on how things go today, future plans for the torch relay could be scotched.   

International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge said the body’s executive board would discuss Friday whether to end the remaining international legs of the relay after San Francisco due to widespread protest. The torch is scheduled to travel to Buenos Aires, Argentina, and then to a dozen other countries before arriving in China on May 4. The Olympics begin Aug. 8.

So, stay tuned. There's a lot riding on what happens here today.    

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"One woman told me she thought twice before bringing her two young kids here, but admitted that she doesn't fully understand the international politics driving the protests. And a businessman told me he was offended that protesters wanted to "spoil our moment in the sun."  

I cannot believe the depth of ignorance of my fellow citizens of the United States of America has on what is happening in the world.  If what the Nazi did before and during World War II was occurring now, they would not want do anything to stop it (Exibit A:  Darfor,or is it Darfur, nothing is being done about it).  We have a nation of "its all about me" and "how would it benefit me" mentality.

It is hubris that the Chinese thought free speech would be curtailed because this is THEIR moment in the sun!

Free speech a novel concept for those who live under the oppressive rule.  Americans are so accustom to being able to voice any feelings they have whenever they want.  Americans have many opportunities to be proud of their country, and so don't give a second thought to speaking out when they see injustice.

This could be a decisive learning experience for China as a country and its citizens.  Not the least of which will be the understanding that as they engage the rest of the world, the world will expect/demand a even playing field.
I wonder about the ethnicity of the businessman who is worried that protesters will "spoil our moment in the sun."  I have one question for him.  What about Tibetans who haven't seen the sun in approximately 58 years?
Many people are there for celebrating the moment, supporting Olympic game, supporting the host city, not protesters.
China with their vain attempts to whitewash their human rights abuses,religious persecution,and their strong hand tactics in Tibet is a farce. The International Olympic Commitee should never have awarded China the 2008 Olympic Games. Mike, Ohio
Just to be fair - any picture with the Chinese National flags? I'm sure that's not so hard to find.
I definitely feel that the Olympics should not be mixed with politics. Tibet was taken over by China half a century ago. Why the protest now? Why not before? If people care so much, they should have been fighting for Tibet from the very start. People are using the Beijing Olympics as an opportunity. It is unfair to the Chinese. It is their turn to celebrate the sports, and I feel like they are not being recognized. If the United States was in China's position, I am sure that these protests would not happen. There are always 2 sides to a story. The Tibetans weren't exactly angels either. Everyone is constantly talking about Tibetan grievances, but they are forgetting about the Han Chinese that were attacked. They are forgetting that the Olympics is about unity and peace.
Those Pro-Tibet movement supporters are terrorists support!
The Tibetan protest is not against the Chinese people or Olympic games. Tibetan people can't protest in their own country without getting killed or imprisoned for years. This is a good opportunity when the world is watching China. We apologize every freedom loving people in the world who have been inconvinienced by our protests. But we have to do this to stop the killings and torture in Tibet.
TORCH TENSIONS SPLIT SAN FRANCISCO, good title. At least it says "Split".

One thing I don't understand is that in all western news, you can only see the pictures of Pro-Tibet and can't see pictures of Pro-Chinese.

if it is "Split", why don't we show 2 pictures?


Bah, Life in China is cheap.  Of cheap things it is the cheapest.  The only thing cheaper is a Tibetan life.
In my humble opinion, the protests are justified.  The Olympics are going bring a huge influx of money into China's economy.  Sometimes it's hitting the pocket that makes a point, so you can't separate politics from sport when there's money involved. I applaud everyone who is in protest.  It's the Freedom of Speech at its best.  
Usless,pitty,just jealous act.  
For the question "What about Tibetans who haven't seen the sun in approximately 58 years? "

Before,  many Tibetans were slaves. After 1949, the slaves were liberated. It's better to read history of Tibet for past 100 years.

Politics and the Olymics have always mixed.  Check the history and get over it.
Just to Re: "What about Tibetans who haven't seen the sun in approximately 58 years? ".

Have you yourself ever been to Tibet?  Do you really understand the Tibetan history?  Please do your homework before your naive statement.  I can tell you that, 58 years ago, only those slaver owners know what sun it.  But now all people under the Tibetan sky can see the sun unless they are as blind as you ARE!!!
CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE A BLIND SIGHTED PROTEST:  Was Tibet ever recognized by UN or any other country in the world? NEVER.  Tibet was always part of China, even Dali Lama admits so.  
Religious freedom in Tibet != Burning Mosque in Lhasa by looters.
Why don't show the pictures of pro-China activities? It is unfair.  
The western "white" world has no business interfering in Chinese internal politics, just like the Chinese don't interfere in for example local American politics by trying to help the native Indians fight for their land and rights against the white folks. The western "white" world cannot criticize or comment on the happenings in Tibet and China because the white people have been doing this for centuries to every other race. White people have been involved in some of the worst cases of human rights violations in the past to countries like India and Africa.Even in this day and age , look at how black Africans are treated in South Africa, their own country, Native Indians in North America, Aborigines in Australia and New Zealand. Get your own house in order first before meddling in other countries' affairs.People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Let the Chinese take care of their own problems. They didnt ask you for any help.
Funny people mention about Dafur, do people know how many US oil companies are in Dafur trying make $$$ the same way as the Chinese? Did you know that the monks who held riots in Tibet attacked random innocent people and burned them alive? I have lived in China for 14 years of my life and I agree that the media is biased, but I have also lived in North America for 10 years and the truth is, western media is also strongly biased. If people think they know what's going on based on what you see on TV, then you are making a big mistake.
Freedom of speech is not equal to freedom of twisting truth and freedom of lie. 3.14 is Chinese 911, many innocent people killed by few terroirst who doing the killing in the name of their Budda and in the name of "free Tibeat". Maybe someone here can freely kill other other in the name of "free Texas", can that be allowed?
Why don't show the pictures of pro-China activities?
Who is making violence?
Why don't show the pictures of pro-China activities?
Who is making riot? We should know how to use our democracy right.
The Chinese never should have gotten the Games in the first place, but then again money talks and the IOC loves the almight dollar... errr... euro.  Rather than boycotting the opening ceremonies, maybe concerned parties should stop buying the hundreds of billions of $$$ of uneccessary crap that comes out China (and India, etc.), made by virtual slave labor.  Our (US/Western) society should open its eyes to the emptiness of our current path and change direction for the better, before we have permanently endebted ourselves financially.  That being said awareness of the plight of Tibet and all oppressed people should be brought into everyones consciousness
The Tibetan protesters, including an American movie-star is against all Chinese people including who live in the mainland and who live all over the world. It is no doubt and clear. What they do is hate and destroy ... As a Chinese-born American, I’d like to demonstrate a different point of view which Joann Chen quoted at today's Washington Post, "Let's celebrate the Olympics for what the Games are meant to be -- a bridge for friendship, not a playground for politics."
China is not a democratic country and is not concerned with individual freedoms whether in Tibet or mainland China.  I've been there-witnessed it and nothing will change.  The government treats their own people like crap-imagine how the Tibetans suffer.  
Even though the Olympics in the past have been tied to politics. I think that it is time that the world  transends this. The Olympics are for the athletes, and the athletes only. It is time to truely seperate the two. We all need to rise above this pettiness and view the Olympics through the eyes of the athletes who have sacrificed so much to be there.
Thanks MSNBC, I did see some pictures on both sides.
This is the first time I saw some unbiased photos showed in western news.


If it's not for the March-08 violence in Tibet, it's probably a lot smaller protest. It's a different protest there compare to here. Over there, they want to fight for survival and freedom. Over here, they just want to be heard on the world stage because of the internet, the blog, the media coverage nowsaday. Does anyone remember Myanmar not so long ago? What about Tiananmen Square? There will always be oppresions in the world. There are always 2 sides of a conflict. My opinion, China will rule as such until the old guards die. Cuba is getting better (how much better is each one's own opinion) because there is no more Fidel. If you are in supreme power, living the life of priviledge, it's hard to give up. That's my two-cents.  
I wish the police can arrest all the Tibetans who delay the torch relay; they are riots.
Just an FYI - the "Free Tibet" movement is nothing new. There's been people with bumper stickers and shirts and flags for at least 12 years (that I personally know of). It's just that this event is giving them a venue where they think that they can protest in the face of the Chinese government, so they've become more visible. Just like during the liberation of Iraq, there were the folks in Detroit and San Diego who are Iraqi refugees who were suddenly all over the national news. They've been around for a generation (I went to school with several Iraqi kids), but folks in the rest of the country didn't know until it was newsworthy and visible.
What a joke protesters are. Protesters are the same as the 1960's hippies. Out of their minds and WAY out of touch. They complain CONSTANTLY! Thats ALL they do. If not the current president then it's the past president, or farmers ruining the natuarl grassland, or cattle farmers...whatever. If prostesters are think they are helping society......well, they're out of touch. Get a life. (Go ahead...deny me my right and flame my opinion..I'll protest it)
Should the world boycott next Olympic in US for "Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse
be honest!I was really socked when watching the news from Nepal and Tibet 2 weeks ago...China killed more than 140 Tibetan monks cuz those Tibetan just want to standup and tell the world to support them to get their land back from china and all freedom and human rights that they suppose to have.... If china really  wants" "spoil our moment in the sun." then How about tibet? I think this is a right time and right moment for the whole world  to send a strong message to Beijing that "They must stop killing and and abusing human rights in their own country and in Tibet"!
To Indian, Canada
Injustice is injustice.  Just because of the past injustices committed by some Europeans, does not mean that injustice and evil should be called out today.  China's support of Sudan's genocide in Darfur is evil.  They need to be called on it.  China's attempts to wipe out Tibetan society and culture are also wrong.  They do not get a "freebie" because this is their time in the sun.  Great nations have to assume great responsibilities and China's desire to whitewash their record is disingenuous, and wrong.
The Chinese like to think themselves the "liberators" of Tibet. Nothing could be further from the truth...

From China's point of view Tibet was an archaic fuedal soceity, made up of an "oppressed" poor and miserable peasant class, an elite priest class, and at the top of it all, they say, was the "tyrant" His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Thus, the Chinese like to think of themselves as bringing "happiness" and "prosperity" to the region. The fact is that they have been moving in ethnic Chinese families by the hundreds of thousands, and they do not allow the ethnic Tibetans to do any real business, or to be in any positions of authority. The new "prosperity" they have brought, seems to be reserved for them alone, and at the expense of the Tibetan people. The peasants are far more miserable now then they ever have been. Furthermore, if the peasants of old Tibet were so "miserable" under the "tyranny" of the Dalai Lama, why are they all begging and pleading for his return?

The Chinese claim that historically, Tibet has "always been a part of China". The fact is that Tibet was a self governing, sovereign nation at the time of the Chinese invasion. But even if Tibet was historically a part of China (which it wasn't), why was it necessary for China to try to eradicate the Tibetan culture? China proudly describes itself as being a multi-ethnic, diverse country, made up of many different minorities and cultures, existing in peace and harmony. But yet it seems to want to deny so many of those minorities their rights to cultural and religious freedom. This is Han (the majority ethnic group) chauvanism at its worst. Of the 6,000 temples and monasteries that existed in Tibet before the unlawful invasion, the Chinese left about 30 remaining, which it then turned into tourist attractions. Those who feel that the pro-Tibet protestors should not be using the Olympics for political reasons, don't think for a second that China is not using the Olympics for political reasons themselves. For China, the Olympics are political, and therefore, it is totally appropriate that this is backfiring on them, completley blowing up in their face. Shame on China.
Countries taking over countries, that's the history of the world. Why are Americans offended when ABSOLUT VODKA did an ad in Mexico saying in "In an ABSOLUT world, Texas and California are still part of Mexico"? The USA took over Texas and California through far more brutal means, not to mention killing the real Americans, the Indians and taking over their lands.

Don't be a hypocrite, self-rightous pig now!
To the person who said politics and the olympics have always been connected; that's just simply wrong. It's true that people have forced themselves into the games at times, but it's relatively recent. The bar was established by Hitler. At any rate, past wrongs don't make it right today. While I personally think it's counterproductive to protest this way, I believe dangerous behavior like throwing things at innocent people carrying a torch can only generate negative perceptions of the protesters.  I don't see how this can possibly help anyone. If anything people are more likely to develop sympathy for China as their best effort to conduct an international sporting event is being held ransom by people behaving irrationally (endangering torch bearers). If the agenda is to educate the public, so far it has failed. If the agenda is to simply terrorize the games, it's off to a good start but I can't believe that's the intent and it certainly won't help Tibet. I find myself confused over the intended purpose, message, and expected outcome of the protest.
If it's not for the March-08 violence in Tibet, it's probably a lot smaller protest. It's a different protest there compare to here. Over there, they want to fight for survival and freedom. Over here, they just want to be heard on the world stage because of the internet, the blog, the media coverage nowsaday. Does anyone remember Myanmar not so long ago? What about Tiananmen Square? There will always be oppressions in the world. There are always 2 sides of a conflict. My opinion, China will rule as such until the old guards die. Cuba is getting better (how much better is each one's own opinion) because there is no more Fidel. If you are in supreme power, living the life of privilege, it's hard to give up. That's my two-cents.
I am here, at the Embarcadero in SF and there is no tension. everyone has a reason and something to say but there are no problems  
It is not just a China’s internal problem of China because it involves another country - Tibet.  Tibet was never a member of United Nation because China invaded Tibet on 1951, and before 1951, not every country was a member of UN.  (UN was founded in 1945).  Why do people keep comparing Tibet now with the Tibet before 1951?  Would you want to compare China now with China in 1966? Cultural Revolution (1966) killed or jailed hundreds of thousands innocent people for the name of "Revolution".  Could it be an excuse for any country to invade China just like China invaded to Tibet to “liberate”?  
Stop apologizing for a xenophobic country with rampant nationalism.  A country that just had a spy convicted in the US for attempting to send US sub secrets to China.  A country that cracks down on ethnic minorities that are not Han in nature.  Just because you are of Chinese ancestery doesn't mean you need to kowtow to a Communist regime.  That's just pathetic.

PS  I'm an ABC who's been to China (and Hong Kong doesn't count).
Where is Tibet?  Who are Tibetans?  
I came from China 15 years ago and has been lived in US since then. It is so offensive for people just thinking Chinese is doped by their governments. Every Tibetan could not see a sun. Have you studied some history about Tibet and china? Have you talked to some chinese living here who are doped by CNN and FOX?

If you just believe a 1600 slave owning theocracy is even sunnier than chines government, there is no conversation.

Here are some facts about the myth of Tibet. Its history tangled with china for more than 1000 years. They (the peace loving people) invaded 'china' for many times. They were the nomads that Han chinese tried to kept outside in the past. If you ask Dalai, 1/4 of today's china is Tibet by accounting every inch they had lived, just like china counting every inch they lived included Tibet too. The Tibet today itself is not self sufficent. There is no real resource there. Billons of dollars every year was subsided to Tibet. They went to college with affirm action type of advantage, one child policy has never been applied to them.

I am happenly a chinese like to see Tibet be independent. We should use the money to resettle anybody include Tibetan who wants to live on China's side. Then close the border. If we do that, all the Tibet lovers will again protest china abut not shelting the refugee. I also not sure if Tibet people just wants to be ruled by a banch of kids has never lived there and could not speak Tibetan.

If Dalai and his supporters in west did anything this time, it just make regular chinese less sympathy to them. They can continue on the course to play crying baby in west. They can cotinue to get money from CIA, but they will never achieve what they wants.
The fact is that Tibet under Dalai Lama's reign 58 years ago was worse than Medieval Europe. Society was devided into two classes: "farmer-slaves", and the slave-owners, the monks. Poor families tried to send at least one of their sons to be monks simply because monks can have 3 meals a day without heavy labor, and on the other hand the family can somehow share a little protection.
You don't see the Chinese agitating Creek decedents and pushing for the creation of an autonomous Creek Indian nation in Mississippi and Alabama or the restoration of the Iroquois tribes in the northwest.  If the tables were turned, how would America respond?
Whoever with average IQ can understand who wants trouble right now? China gov or Tibet activitists? Of course Tibet activitists! "But we have to do this to stop the killings and torture in Tibet." - this is 100% terrorist's logic. To stop US's Mideast policy, I have to destroy World Trade Center?! Tomorrow I will sabotage your wedding becuase I hate your position on Iraq war! What is my wedding to do with my position on Iraq war? Good question! then what is Olmypic Game to do with free Tibet? If you want to librate Tibet, talk to China, fight with China, or asemble a troop to take over Tibet, but one thing, don't bother others!    
I’d honor the right of both of those pro- and against- the Beijing Olymics. For those Tibet protestors, do you really undersatnd what’s the need of Tibet’s people (not those outside Tibetian)? For supportor, does Chinese people (in China except Beijing) really gain anything from this game?
Whoever with average IQ can understand who wants trouble right now? China gov or Tibet activitists? Of course Tibet activitists! "But we have to do this to stop the killings and torture in Tibet." - This is 100% terrorist's logic. To stop US's Mideast policy, I have to destroy World Trade Center?! Tomorrow I will sabotage your wedding becuase I hate your position on Iraq war! What is my wedding to do with my position on Iraq war? Good question! then what is Olmypic Game to do with free Tibet? If you want to librate Tibet, talk to China, fight with China, or asemble a troop to take over Tibet, but one thing, don't bother others!    


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