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Mothers tell their side of polygamy story

Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:24 AM

 SAN ANGELO, Texas – For nearly two weeks, journalists covering the removal of children from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints compound, known as the YFZ Ranch, have had access to just one side of the story. 

During the initial raid, the men who live on the ranch weren’t allowed to leave, and the women who had been removed with their children were sequestered away in shelters.

That gave state officials the advantage of presenting their allegations of physical and sexual abuse of children on the ranch to the public with little chance for rebuttal except through church lawyers.

Well, the situation changed dramatically last night, when Texas Child Protective Services and police officers separated dozens of mothers from their children, keeping custody of the children and sending the women back to the ranch. (Some may have chosen to go to a battered women’s shelter, according to a CPS official.)

Immediately after the women went home, I received a call on my cell phone from a spokesman for the family.

"They’re all back at the ranch," he told me.  "They want to talk."

"When?" I asked.

"As soon as you can get here," he said.

So I dropped everything, and rushed to the ranch, along with more than a dozen other reporters who had received a similar call.

Speaking out
After a short wait at the main gate (where construction is almost complete on an ominous looking guard tower), we were all allowed in to the ranch living area. Homes and log-sided dormitories sat on a gentle knoll, separated by a wide, well maintained road.

Two dozen or more women wearing prairie-style dresses were waiting for us outside of one of the buildings.

I’m posting some of their interviews here because I want you to hear from these women for yourselves.

VIDEO: 'They totally lied' - mothers in ranch raid speak out

They all had similar stories (so similar that some reporters suggested they were pre-rehearsed). 

In short, the women are heartbroken at having had their children taken away. They’re angry at the government for doing so, and for allegedly tricking them into returning to the ranch Monday without their children.

They said the living conditions in the shelter were cramped and dirty, but they also said many of the volunteers and even state workers who cared for them were warm, loving people. They worry they’ll never see their children again, and depending on the outcome of custody hearings on Thursday, they may be right.

They all denied their children were sexually or physically abused. They said all women are free to leave the ranch anytime they wish.  And, they suspect the phone call from a 16-year-old mother alleging abuse was a hoax from outside the compound.

One of the women, Marie, wanted to make sure to have the opportunity to say she forgives the people who have torn her family apart.

Click here to read more about the polygamist sect raid:
Compound considered home for sect's elite
Newsweek: Texas sect kept to itself

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I used to live in an area that had a few polymogists.  I've thought the phone call was a hoax from an "interested outsider" the whole time.  There are some people who enbrace the poly lifestyle, are encouraged to join, and thrive in the "society".  I don't think 16 is child abuse, and I know my mother was 16 and my father was 7 years older and not in a poly group, and there was no disapproval in the community for their union.  Maybe different parts of the country, have different socio-economic standards.  I don't agree with the fundamentalists, but there has to be a better way of "monitoring" "child abuse".  An older "husband may not be approved by us, but as a stable, community leader, who is prosperous and has a stable of wives to help raise his bride and new children, he would be better than a man who doesn't have property or wisdom/standing in the community.  Many women in a poly society see sex as part of a religion, the women see it as a duty, and also being "chosen" or special, to have the husband choose them (the ones I knew).  I knew women who were educated, taught both college students and children, including masters programs (when they were too old to bear children or felt a need to be "in society") and had to see their husbands be with women younger than their own children, by many years.  Not my choice, but as with any nation their are many religious views.  I don't believe 16 is child abuse in every case.  There are many variations in the poly lifestyles.  Not everyone is in a "prarie dress".  I believe the poly lifestyle is a cult, but that again is my view.
Hopefully they crack the rest of these cults soon, religious extremists have way too much influence in the world.
This is a no win situation.  If you take the children away, you are infringing on their rights, and if you don't you let the abuse continue.  The only way to stop, or at least cut down on polygamy in this country, is to make it legal.  If it was legal, and these men were forced to be financially responsible for all of these wives and children, I can assure you that most would choose monogamy.
If this were some radical group practicing "female circumcision," there would be (one hopes) universal outrage and no sympathy for the adults in the group who condone it.  Why should we be sympathetic to those who condone child sexual abuse?

Forcing 13-year-old girls into sexually active "spiritual marriage" with men is sexual abuse.  The fact that these mothers don't see it that way means that they too have been abused and brainwashed and lied to by a bunch of dirty old geezers who have turned perversion into an article of faith in order to cry "Religious freedom!" when anyone questions them.  

The men in that compound have committed statutory rape and should go to jail.  The women have aided and abetted--in lieu of jail, they should be required to undergo counseling, deprogramming, and family therapy before anyone entertains their request to have their kids back.
I don't doubt the mothers love their children; I am concerned that the children have to marry at such a young age. For God's sake, WHY? Where is it written that "Thou Shalt Marry at 13"? Hiding bad behavior within religion doesn't change the sin. Anything beyond fellowship, communion, baptism, our commission, tithing and helping widows and children has been added by men and is not a right that God would condone or protect. Our kingdom is not of this world, so the buildings or rituals we create are 'fluff' we waste our time defending.
Daliar Lama's group would be cult if he were in the States.

Bet the policy of this sect is to deny allegations
in the event a raid were to take place. Bet anyone
who speaks out will be cast out. Hope the raid
produced incriminating evidence.  I cant imagine what
it must be like for such a young girl dreading her day of spiritual union to an older abusive man...dreading knowing of the room that awaits her once the union is (un) sanctified. Hope justice prevails her for those girls and they seize the place.
The sacrifice of pure young girls to the men in this
sect turns my stomach. Bunch of men worshiping themselves.
I don't believe the state of Texas should remove these
children from their mothers, unless they can prove on an individual case by case, that each child has been
abused.
Sorry, I don't put much weight in these women's comments. They don't sawy me into thinking the state is doing soemthing wrong or terrible given the situation. I do believe in freedom of religion, but it is hard for me to support this types of groups for their rights when it appears they use "religion" to condone a perfect breeding ground to conduct certain crimes. I hope they find that 16 year old.
This is the same tactic the FLDS used during the short-creek raid. "Poor us--we're being persecuted." It is a bunch of B.S. This damaging cult wraps itself in the cloak of religion when it so chooses, and thumbs it's nose at American laws. Yet when it is found in contempt of those laws, it cries, "freedom of religion." What a crock. All those people should be arrested--including the mothers.
They were not fooled into leaving their children. They left when the children were rehoused because of the so called cramped conditions. Also they should never had been allowed to come with their children in the first place.The mothers were the inablers of the abuse that was suffered on these children. They didn't stop those old men from helping themselves to the young girls so now I do not beleive they care.They the mothers or the older females should start looking for some way to defend themselves for the sins they allowed to be visited on their children.
I certainly hope there wasn't child abuse, but regardless of this: what a pathetic looking bunch of washed out cardboard cut-out women these are. They need to be out in the real world, getting a life.
This has seemed more like a modern-day witch hunt than "justice."  There is no event in the US in recent history, where a whole community has been uprooted over abuse allegations against a single man.  I don't agree with polygamy, but I disagree much more with the way the US Gov has botched this.  Just because a group keeps to itself, doesn't mean they aren't good, upstanding people.  It just means they keep to themselves.
Leave it to the government to make a bad situation ten times worse. When are they going to learn that we don't all follow what the media says is the one and only right way? Though the underage victims are truly a trajedy, you cannot oppress an entire people because they don't follow your secular values.
    This is tragic and I am so ashamed of the government for removing the children from their mothers.
    The fathers, if they were abusing children are the ones who should be removed instead of taking children away from their homes and environment that they have known.
    If the government wants to ensure that the children are not going to be abused, then they can monitor the children and mothers according to the court mandate.
Yes, of course, they all say the pre-rehearsed same thing because they've been told by The God Warren Jeffs (who has also told them he is the Christ -- wonder whether they ever read Matthew 24 on this?) that either they toe the party line or go straight to Hell.

I'm sure they are sincere -- because they sincerely believe their salvation hinges on throwing their children into the Furnace of Moloch just like their Puppet Master tells them it does.

They remain in my prayers as do their children.
That's it?  That's all your going to put in print on what the mother's said?  Not even their own words but pared down and watered down into 4 paragraphs?  I don't believe in their beliefs or their way of life, I do believe abuse probably did go on.  I am really sick and tired of wanting to read about "News" stories I'm interested in with real info and receiving the reporter's paraphrasing of what the person I wanted to hear from said.  I mean come on, what happened to actual quotes?  I grew up in a very closed Baptist home with some of the same views of the world these people have so I'm interested to see what happens and hear what happened from the people actually living there, not your version of their story.  
The Texas authorities have destroyed the lives of hundreds of people, on the basis of a phone call.  
What country do we live in again?
Regardless of what your personal preferences are, and unless the state can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that criminal activity took place IN SPECIFIC SITUATIONS, these mothers & tyheir children should be reunited and left in peace. We have enough problems with religious zealotry here and in Iraq without getting involved in a heavy-handed, self righteous action. It appears the Texas religious right & do-gooders were just waiting for the slightest opportunity to raid this compound, obtain and distribute salacious, unproven, one-sided reports and justify their own sanctimonious thoughts.
If it wasn't for government action, I could not care less about what these people believe in...it is their own choice.
This is another WACO in the making, just without guns and fire! Is there anyone, anybody out there to stop the abusive power of government agencies? I suspected from the begining that the call from the yet undidentified girl who called, was probably fictive to give the police an excuse to move in. Whoever is responsible for this must be identified and fired!
I do not condon child abuse and/or polygamy, but I strongly support the rights of every citizen to live freely as they wish. This is still America and "in dubio pro reo" is(?) the guiding principle. As always the children are the victims!!!
Why  all the concern at this time for the children? These same people were not at all concerned about driving out of town their own minor age boys, from their town in Arizona before relocating to Texas.
Nor did they ever have concerns about taking advantage of the tax payers in Arizona or Utah by providing fradulant information to take advantage of state welfare services. Every one who dresses in a long dress, doesn't necessarily have the heart of saint. It has been said that there are those who can lie, better than most of us can tell the truth. TEXAS, DON'T BE DECEIVED BY THE TEARS AND THE RIGHTEOUS PIOUS FACADE.  
This is a very interesting case.  None of the news stories say anything about the men. I would be interested in knowing more about them.  How many?  Where are they?  Have they been interviewed?  What are they saying?  

Also, when can we hear directly from the children as to what their lives were like?

In a situation like this, everyone loses.....
I don't care how angry they are.  It doesn't matter.  If there were allegations of abuse, then the state had to act.  These people are using religion to commit ritual pedophilia.  If their faith didn't allow nasty old men to have sex with young girls, do you think they would be so devout?  We do have freedom of religion in America, but we have a lot of freedoms.  And the one that trumps them all is the freedom of choice.  These spineless, emptyheaded parents (especially the mothers!) chose to give away all their freedoms, but they do not have the right to give up their children's as well.  
These people aren't even making their own choices any more, anyway.  Watch the documentary "Join Us", see a family get deprogrammed, and you'll see what I mean.
hhmmm...interesting.
They have been raised from birth to believe what they're doing is not wrong. The simple fact that they removed pregnant 14 and 15 year olds is enough evidence
If this was supposed to make me feel sorry for these women, it didn't cut ice. FLDS is a cult, nothing more, and one that exploits women and children, especially young women, and the young men who are forced out when they reach a certain age.

Girls as young as 14 are pregnant and have lost a huge chapter of their lives because of these so-called righteous men who call themselves, Holy. Young men thrown out because they serve as competition to these old perverts, yeah, those are wonderful examples of this loving bunch called, the FLDS. Again, not cutting the ice.
I am SO not a supporter of the Mormon religion, and in fact am no longer a Christian... But I think these folks are being unfairly treated here.

My great grandmother was married when she was 14 to a man in his 40s. Both good Methodist families - he was also the county Sheriff! No one would have thought to call it "child abuse". Why was it not then, and it is now?

In a country that supposedly accomodates all religions, and not just Christianity, where does the more than one wife rule come from? ( yes, I do know, but I am making a point!) A number of other world religions allow plural marraiges. If the fundamental basis for the number of spouses comes only from a religion, then who's got the right to deny these folks their determination?

I live in Pennsylvania... The Amish also had some pretty "odd" religious rules. They look like they share the same tailor when it comes to the women at the YFZ ranch! So, why are the Amish left alone and these folks rousted?  
Texas can't cough up the 16 year old because she
doesn't exist. Is there a tape? Who made her up?
On one hand, I listen to Carolyn Jessop and other ex-polygamist members, it sounds like a horribly abusive environment.  On the other hand, stealing 400 kids in one night feels like a gross overreach of government power.  I wish I lived in Texas so I could foster parent some of those kids during this.
These so-called mothers have done nothing to protect their children from sexual or physical abuse, that makes them unfit parents. Forcing 13 year old girls to have sex with old men is child rape, not marriage, it's against the law and they should pay the legal price for what they have done. How in the world these people think polygamy, child rape, and abuse are their religous rights is truly evil. I hope these confused and abused children are protected from these deviants and a full battery of charges are brought against their so-called parents.
I feel for these women to not have there children, but they say they can leave at any time but is that true and could they have taken there children with them? Probably not. Look at Carolyn Jessop, she had to leave in the middle of the night.
And when is it ever right for girls to marry old men when they are just 14 are so.
This has seemed more like a modern-day witch hunt than "justice."  There is no event in the US in recent history, where a whole community has been uprooted over abuse allegations against a single man.  I don't agree with polygamy, but I disagree much more with the way the US Gov has botched this.  Just because a group keeps to itself, doesn't mean they aren't good, upstanding people.  It just means they keep to themselves.
I am all for freedom of religion. But is it religion that allows people to have sex (married or not) with minors? I would love to have a couple more wives, but number one won't allow it and I am too much in love (20 years and counting) to press the issue. I think that this splinter group is not helping the Mormon Church at all.
This is pure propaganda! They (the women) let their daughters, and sons, be abused! That is clear to say the least. Most of us feel for these poor young men and women. Clearly they will be better off long term away from the FLDS!!
Texas has screwed teh pooch big time on this one - AGAIN. It is just a matter of time for Rick Perry to stick his incompetent little head into something that he cannot get out of. He got away with intimidating a black DPS officer before he was elected governor, he has allowed the Travis County DA's to shoot or beat blacks and Hispanics at will - against OVERWHELMING evidence; but he has finally really screwed up! Here in Texas, judges do not overrule cops. But in Federal court, some of these blatantly false allegations will come to light and they will loose their shirts. Thank GOD it wasn't in Waco!
And for all the usual suspects - I an a REPUBLICAN - just a constitutional one.
If they are not adhering to the legal age for marriage then yes pursue it and throw the pedophiles in jail. To go in and take away everyone’s children is ridiculous.

If they do not want the government to police their actions then these multiple women married to these few men should:

1. Stop Claiming Welfare.
2. Don't request our hard earned tax dollars for any reason - then expect to not abide by our laws.

Our Country is based on Freedom - They should be Free do as they will - BUT We the Taxpayers Should not be expected to Pay for it.

I just wonder how they justify raising their children in a bubble away from the "Unpure people" while drawing Welfare and such from those same people.

That to me is hypocritical.
So none of the children were sexually abused hmmm?

That's just very difficult to believe.

Babies having babies is such a shame.

Those mothers who were sent back to the ranch must be brainwashed or something.
Am I wrong or isn't Polygamy illegal? Why are these people even given the option of living outside the law in this case? Am I also wrong in thinking that kids shouldn't be indoctrinated into a lifestyle that forces them into illegal marriages and pedophilia?
This is a situation between two different worlds. We look at them as different because we do not understand their ways. They are happy and content this is their way of life, just as us living how we live is our way of life. we can not discriminate agaisnt those we dont understand, wether were religious or not. These children grow up only knowing their lifestyles because of the life their parents live and we look at that as worng.. but the "normal" people aka us/the outter world are the same way. If a child is being abused YES! step in and do something, if not dont make anyones life harder and make them look bad for something no one did.
This story is bound to help reveal the problem with CPS in Texas.  There is no other corporation in the United States that has more power than the government or individuals.  CPS in Texas gets PAID by the caseload.  This causes an incentive for them to sequester children, regardless of any innocence of the accused.  The result is millions of dollars spent by Texas citizens in defense of their innocence.

This 'broken' corporate entity goes unmonitored for their Nazi tactics of taking children away from families.  Even when families have been found innocent of charges, the families are forever broken and financially ruined.  All the while, children still die from abuse from real cases that CPS allows to slip through their hands.  They are too busy worrying about too many cases without probable cause to address the truly endangered cases.

This corrupt corporation manipulates the legal system at EVERY possible chance.  They LIE and omit important facts to Judges, Grand Juries and District Attorneys that would exonerate the innocent. Entrapping innocent victims by the score.  Once a person is targeted by CPS of Texas, there is no escaping their wrath.

Though I do not agree with the teachings and doctrines of this branch of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, they have clearly fallen victim of the corrupt Texas CPS system.  This happens to individuals 100s of times a week.  But their single voices are never heard and never make news worthy reporting.  Perhaps the scope of this royal screw-up on CPS will now become the international focus.  This corporation is corrupt to it's core and mission.  It is about time that the citizens of Texas protest the unconstitutional behavior of a very corrupt entity that is 'supposed' to protect families, NOT destroy them.
Yes, many of the child maybe in danger of abuse espesially the young ladies in the compound but I dont feel that these children should be seperated from there mothers....Ive seen alot worse parents out there that get to keep there kids even after more obvious signs of abuse (bruises, burns etc.) I think the women AND the children are in abusive situations....the women dont know any different and therefore defend there husbands, but seperating them from there children??? How in the world does that make sense??  
Polygamy is illegal.  Rape is illegal.  If any of these women stood by and let any child on that compound be raped by an older man they are, among other things, guilty of shielding pedophiles.  We cannot be lulled by their crocodile tears.  Please keep your focus on the real issues.  
Logistically this quickly going south...news reports are that they can't identify which child belongs to which parent -- if you are raised by a bunch of "sister wives" do you think its possible that kids don't even know who their mother is?? Can't law enforcement identify pregnant teens? How can they not find the battered teen wife whose anonymous call triggered this? I am repulsed by the whole polygamous, "keep sweet", child bride aspects of YFZ, but on the other hand the wholesale removal of all children is pretty reprehensible. They should have just rounded up all the teenage girls and let the rest go.
That's it? That's all you got? Women crying over being separated (they could have chosen to stay close to their children, but they didn't). Did you ask them why they thought some women chose to go to a battered women's shelter? Did you ask them how old they were themselves and how old their youngest children were? The bed in the main temple, the escape to Texas, how they felt about the law re. underage marriage?
I think that these families are being unfairly persecuted. If there was a complaint like this made anywhere outside one of their compounds, would CPS have taken away all of the children in the neighborhood simply because ONE child made allegations??? I don't think so. I understand that many people do not agree with their religious practices, and I will say I do not necessarily understand it or agree with it myself. However, being an American Citizen I believe in their right to their beliefs. Hopefully the government will realize that categorizing all of these families because of ONE allegation is wrong. To these families specifically, I hope that you are reunited, and that the allegations are proven to be false. If the allegations are proven to be true, I hope that you as mothers find ways of protecting your daughters.
I think that these families are being unfairly persecuted. If there was a complaint like this made anywhere outside one of their compounds, would CPS have taken away all of the children in the neighborhood simply because ONE child made allegations??? I don't think so. I understand that many people do not agree with their religious practices, and I will say I do not necessarily understand it or agree with it myself. However, being an American Citizen I believe in their right to their beliefs. Hopefully the government will realize that categorizing all of these families because of ONE allegation is wrong. To these families specifically, I hope that you are reunited, and that the allegations are proven to be false. If the allegations are proven to be true, I hope that you as mothers find ways of protecting your daughters.
This is a complete PR ploy; I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that these women were, for the most part, coached by their husbands and other male leaders on what to tell the press.  Have you read Escape, by Carolyn Jessop?  'Free to leave whenever they want' is complete bs.  Carolyn was married to Merril, head of this uberrestrictive compound; fortunately, she was able to flee before they moved to Texas and the sect turned ever more cult-like.  Rulon Jeffs, Warren's father, was a dictator, but he was the Raul Castro to Warren's Fidel.  A be-all, end-all authority whose word was law, but at least he had some sense and allowed some liberties.  Warren is just mental.  Too bad the FLDS went the opposite way of Cuba.

If women are free to leave as they like, why did Carolyn fear for her life as she was running?  Why did Merril send people to stalk her in her new home for months after she left?  It is a miracle she is the strong woman she is today after having been raised in that brainwashing culture.
As a former Magistrate in Virginia I say thanks for the other side of the story.   Whichever turns out to be either factual or truth or both, thank you for sharing this story.
It's so sad that these women are so brainwashed that they don't even see how wrong their practices are! None of these children should be returned to parents that believe child rape and abuse is their god given right. Thank god the Texas CPS stepped in to stop this outrage, it's about time, this was allowed to go on for far to long. These children need to be protected and it's obvious that the parents won't do it.
What kind of beaurocratic idiot thinks that it is better for these children and women to take them from their homes and put them in the Hell Hole of foster care?
If the government thinks that these 400+ children (many aged 2 to 10 years old) were in immenent danger of being married off in the next few days, why did they not just take the men away and leave the women and children alone.    That would have eleminated any danger without tramatizing these poor children.    How can the government get away with such atrocities?     Especially since the person specifically named in the complaint,  Dale Barlow, has not been in Texas for 3 decades.    It really sounds like some kind of trumped up charges that the state is using to justify a crusade against this polygamist group.    Should they be allowed to force 13 year old girls to marry - NO,  but these issues can be resolved in a much better way than the Texas government is doing.

The government taking such broad and obviously harmful action against all these innocent children scares me much more than what concenting adults are doing in this group.


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